There’s no doubt about it. We’re still very much in the “messy middle” when it comes to AI and its impact on writers, copywriters and solo marketers.
This messy middle creates a ton of fear and anxiety. The AI story is changing weekly. The speculation about where this is going is rampant.
And many of us are just trying to figure out where we’ll stand when the dust settles.
That’s why I want to continue to bring you useful and thoughtful conversations on this topic. Because that’s what this issue deserves—thoughtful conversation.
In this week’s podcast I’m talking with Rob Marsh. Rob is a very successful direct response copywriter, founder of The Copywriter Club and co-host (with the amazing Kira Hug) of the popular podcast by the same name: The Copywriter Club.
I wanted to bring Rob on the show because he’s someone who’s spent a lot of time experimenting with and using AI in his work as a copywriter. And I wanted him to share some of his valuable insights and practical applications of AI with us.
We get into a quick review of where things stand right now with AI and the impact to writers. Then we get into the various opportunities this technology provides us with. We also dive into the topic of how to prepare for the looming recession. And how to change your positioning, messaging and offers to survive and thrive in the months and year ahead.
I thought this was an excellent discussion, and I hope you find it as valuable as I did.
The notes that follow are a very basic, unedited summary of the show. There’s a lot more detail in the audio version. You can listen to the show using the audio player below. Or you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[00:03:28] Ed – What makes you what factors make you the most optimistic about this?
Rob – For me, as I’ve played around with the tools, there’s this opportunity to use AI to increase not just our production, the amount of work that we can get done, but to improve the kind of thinking and strategizing that we do.
[00:10:10] Ed – Let’s move into some uses that you’re really excited about right now. Maybe we can touch on 3 or 4 of them.
Rob – Prospecting is hard as a copywriter, and you’ve talked about this with your podcast for years. It’s a bit of a numbers game to do it right and obviously you don’t want to be sending out junk to make those numbers. You don’t send out 100 pitches that you’re just typing together as quick as you can, you’ve got to put some thought into it. So, one of the things that that we’ve taught people in our group, is a process for setting up what we would call an MVP pitch.
[00:17:24] Ed – So that’s a great one. What would be another one that you’re really excited about right now?
Rob – You might take one of your frameworks and again we’re talking to a tool like ChatGPT, or you might use Bard or Claude or one of the other generative AI tools and you basically say, I’d love to have 25 captions ideas that I can share on Twitter or on Instagram or on LinkedIn on this topic and you’re not just saying it’s not a one-line prompt, you’re giving it your framework. You’re telling it a little bit about what you think. and then it will churn the audience.
[00:20:30] Ed – Have you tried to see what it could do if you’re sitting on a gold mine of content that could be repurposed in many different ways.
Rob – So that this is the next big thing that Kira and I are going to be doing at The Copywriter Club is there are tools like wisdomai.com, which is basically a coach in the box kind of a tool where you can take all of your podcast transcripts, or you can take course transcripts, or anything that you’ve written and you can upload that into a tool Wisdom AI, and basically, it creates a coach type chatbot.
[00:25:11] Ed – Can you give us a couple of other examples of how writers and copywriters can start repositioning themselves to provide different kinds of value with AI?
Rob – The number one thing we teach is you are not just that order taker, that writer who just shows up. If somebody asks you, I need a website. Can you help me write on a website? Your first answer should not be yes, I can help you write a website. First you should be asking questions about what do we need the website for? What is the problem we’re trying to solve? Because copywriters are problem solvers, and sometimes the problem is solvable with copy.
[00:28:40] Ed – What happens when you finally muster the courage to show up that way and start thinking that way and repositioning that way?
Rob – That’s a that’s a great question and this is the same challenge that we have as a copywriter is “well, I have this research process”, and clients push back and say, “ah, we’ve already done our own research”, or “we don’t need the research. We know who our customer is.” It’s really the same problem and you have a decision, you can say, “okay I’m willing to work within those constraints that the client has” or “no. I need to work with a higher-level client, somebody who understands the value that I bring” and in that case, you need to find better clients.
[0032:16] Ed – So what can we do to better prepare is writers, copywriters, and strategists to not only do well, but come out of whatever that is and when it is, stronger than we were going into it.
Rob – This is actually a foundational question because the economy is always going to be out there. Sometimes it’s going to be good and sometimes it’s going to be bad, but we all have the same economy. I’ve talked to copywriters in the last 2 weeks who have literally in the last 4 months built gone from 0 in income to more than 10 k a month and then other copywriters who’ve gotten the exact opposite and had all of their clients disappear, and you have to say, okay “What’s the difference here?” Now it’s not always the copywriter’s fault, client decides to stop spending or whatever, those are realities that we have to learn how to deal with and this isn’t even really AI related, this is business related, and it doesn’t matter what the economy is, we are 100 percent responsible for whatever we do to sell ourselves, to grow our business, to find clients. So, if for some reason, our business is suddenly not doing as well, it’s not because we’ve become bad at what we’ve done, but it’s because we need to change something in order to react to whatever it is.
[0043:57] Ed – How do you filter out the stuff that’s just not really going to be relevant and helpful today?
Rob – So find somebody to follow, you know, a couple of names that I would follow, outside what we’re doing with our AI podcast or whatever, Sam Woods – great guy, super smart thinker around AI and copywriting. Rob Lennon – is a content guy who’s been experimenting with a lot of AI’s. In fact, he’s created an artificial intelligence personality that he has a podcast with where he’s talking to the AI, and it’s responding back. But find a few people just to follow and watch and then the other thing is I would just play around with some of the tools. So, if you’re a content creator and now the problem is finding the right tools. Let’s start with CHATGPT, Bard, if you can get access to Claude. These are the big ones and just play with them. Ask them questions and test them out.
[00:48:10] Ed – Where can I send people to learn more about what you’re doing. I know you’re talking a lot about this stuff. You got a new podcast on AI for writers and copywriters. So tell us about that first.
Rob – So, Kira and I have put together a podcast all about this stuff. We’ve interviewed several people who are creating AI’s, copywriters who are using them, even other experts outside of copywriting and the ways that they’re using AI, it’s called AI for Creative Entrepreneurs. You can find it at AI for Creative Entrepreneurs or on YouTube.
For those who want to learn more about what you guys are doing, just in general, and your excellent newsletter, where can we send them?
The Copywriter Club
Facebook
LinkedIn
Rob and Kira’s new AI course for writers and copywriters
Key topics and bullets
- Subscribing to AI newsletters
- Following experts in AI and copywriting
- Experimenting and getting comfortable with AI tools
- Participating in challenges to explore AI capabilities
- Supporting paid tools and trying out new ones
- Overcoming challenges with clients and economic realities
- Option to work within constraints or find better clients
- Adjusting offers and finding new clients to navigate economic challenges
- Taking responsibility for own success and adapting to changes
- Offering value and problem-solving for clients
- Adapting and succeeding as a freelancer
- Adjusting offers, finding new clients, and switching niches
- Adapting to difficult economic times
- Taking responsibility for own success
- Importance of adjusting and adapting in business
- Effective pitching strategies for copywriters
- Avoiding the mistake of pitching “I can do anything”
- Figuring out clients’ problems and adjusting offers accordingly
- Taking tasks off clients’ plates and offering value
- Tailoring offers to specific client needs
- Using smaller or easy-to-say-yes asks to sell services
- Utilizing AI tools to share content and knowledge
- Wisdom AI tool for creating chatbots
- Uploading transcripts and creating “edbot”
- Linking to supporting documents
- Coaches creating similar tools for access to wisdom and expertise
- Big opportunity for copywriters’ businesses
Quotes, hooks, and timestamps
The Impact of AI on Copywriting: “I actually think that good copywriters who learn how to harness the power of AI, of tools, even even the ability just to talk about them and using them with their clients are gonna succeed.”— Rob Marsh 00:02:56 – 00:02:56
The Power of AI in Writing: “For me, as I’ve played around with the tools, there’s this opportunity to use AI to increase not just our production, but to improve the kind of thinking and strategizing that we do.”— Rob Marsh 00:03:33 – 00:03:42
Prospecting with ChatGPT: “I can basically say, here’s the template for my pitch… and in less than 2 minutes, it will piece together how, you know, 40, 50, a 100 pitches that are built to my template that are are really good. Literally would have taken me days to do that myself, and ChatGPT can do it in minutes.”— Rob Marsh 00:13:42 – 00:13:59
Creating Social Media Content Made Easy: “If anybody listening is like me, I hate creating content for social media. Pain in the butt to do. I’m not a designer and so, you know, putting it into cool designs or whatever is again, another it’s just it’s something that I would hire a VA to do if I even get around to doing that.”— Rob Marsh 00:17:44 – 00:17:52
Viral Topic: The Future of Coach Chatbots
Quote: “You may be able to pay $30 and just have all access to, you know, to their wisdom.”— Rob Marsh 00:22:46 – 00:22:53
The Power of Copywriters as Problem Solvers: “Your first thing should be asking questions about, well, what what do we need the website for? Like, what is the problem we’re trying to solve? Right? Because copywriters are problem solvers, and sometimes the problem is solvable with copy. But sometimes it’s not.”— Rob Marsh 00:25:38 – 00:25:51
The Value of Following Your Process: “And you have a decision, you can say, okay. I’m willing to work within those constraints that the client has. Or, actually, no. I need to work with a higher level client, somebody who understands the value that I bring.”— Rob Marsh 00:29:41 – 00:29:53
Adjusting to Economic Challenges: “It doesn’t matter what the economy is. We are 100 1 100 percent responsible for whatever we do to sell ourselves, to grow our business, to find clients. And so if for some reason, our business is suddenly not doing as well… it’s because we need to change something in order to react to whatever it is.”— Rob Marsh 00:32:310-0:35:09
How to Tailor Your Offer to Your Client’s Needs: “You need to find something that they need help with. And if if you find a thing that is a problem for them or a challenge…anything you can take off of your client’s plate to make life easy for them is something and they have to be willing to pay.”— Rob Marsh 00:36:32 – 00:36:40
Exploring AI Tools and Finding Reliable Voices: “So it’s just a matter of exploring playing and finding a couple voices that are kinda doing the same thing that you can listen to?”— Rob Marsh 00:46:51 – 00:46:58
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