As freelancers and solo professionals, we often (unknowingly) sabotage our own success from the very first interaction with a prospect.
We present ourselves and our services in a way that works against us. It erodes trust and diminishes our perceived value before we even begin working with a potential client.
It often starts the moment we ask our clients, “What can I do for you?”
This simple question can unknowingly shift us from being experts in our field to mere order-takers, losing control of our own business direction.
From there, it shows up in what we say to clients and prospects. What we offer. How we price our work. How we position ourselves in the market. And how we talk about what we do and our value we deliver.
In this episode, we’re diving deep into this critical issue. My guest is Amy Posner, an experienced freelance professional and entrepreneur who has mastered the art of positioning herself as an expert rather than an order-taker.
Amy shares invaluable insights on how to regain control of your freelance business, build authority with clients and establish yourself as the go-to expert in your field.
We explore a number of important topics, including:
- Recognizing when you’ve fallen into the order-taker role and how to break free
- Practical steps to shift from order-taker to expert (and yes, you ARE more of an expert than you realize!)
- Building and demonstrating authority—even if you’re shy or introverted
- Setting boundaries and managing client expectations
- Developing the communication skills and confidence needed to position yourself as an expert
Whether you’re a seasoned freelancer looking to level up your business or still in the early stages of growing your practice, this episode offers valuable insights to help you take back the power in your business and truly thrive as a freelance professional.
I hope you find our conversation enlightening and actionable!
The notes that follow are a very basic, unedited summary of the show. There’s a lot more detail in the audio version. You can listen to the show using the audio player below. Or you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Key Topics and Bullets:
- Consistently improving skills and focusing on client experience
- Positioning and demonstrating expertise through written content
- Understanding and diagnosing client needs through effective questioning
- The ongoing nature of self-discovery and growth
- Being deliberate in positioning oneself and not letting the market decide
- Understanding client priorities and varying levels of expertise
- Impact of business skills on freelance success
- Transitioning from partner in businesses to freelance work
- Emphasizing reliability, communication, and serving clients well
- Personalizing content and developing a voice
- Using questioning to spark dialogue and position value with prospects
- The potential for freelancing to serve as a personal and professional improvement program
Timestamp Overview:
04:02 Amy– There’s some basic things that people need to know in order to eat well as a freelancer because I’ve seen really talented freelancers who don’t have business chops, just don’t eat as well as maybe a mediocre practitioner who knows how to run a business. And I’m looking to close that gap.
Ed– I approach it from a very different angle. It’s interesting that, sometimes coming from a totally different world can help you be a more successful creative because I, you know, having come from the corporate world, especially corporate sales, I thought of this as a different first of all, I thought of it as a business. And then I thought of it as a business where nothing happens until someone makes a sale. So to me, everything was about marketing and selling, and then the production kinda takes a back seat to that as opposed to what I thought was really strange is my colleagues who’d been in it for decades were approaching it in reverse. You know, marketing and sales kinda took a backseat, just as an example. I mean, there are other elements of the business. So, I definitely resonate with what you said.
06:59 Ed– So what would you say are some common signs that a freelancer has fallen into the trap of being an order taker rather than, you know, an expert or a trusted adviser? Let’s start there.
Amy– So I think I think the basic thing that defines an order taker is someone who says yes. So the client calls, you know, I need an x and the freelancer says great. It’ll cost you y. I can get it done by x date. Let’s go. And that they’re taking an order, essentially. You know, they could be ordering a sandwich or they could be ordering a web design or they could be ordering a piece of copy and, you know, you’ve got a menu and you say yes. On the other hand, you know well, you didn’t ask me this. You didn’t ask me the difference.
Ed– I knew we would land there anyway, but I wanted to see what you see as the signs because then listeners can start to kinda self-identifying, you know, if some of this resonates. But, yeah, however you wanna take it.
08:44 Amy– that’s what I see as the order taker. I mean, you’re literally taking the order. Right? Like, you know, like the wait staff. They show up at your table, you tell them what you prefer, they say great, and they go get it done and they bring it back hopefully in a timely and a delicious way. The expert says great. So tell me what’s going on? Like, why you know, great. You need a new website. So what’s going on? What tell me, you know, what brought us to this call? What’s the genesis of the call? What’s been going on in your business? And, you know, tell me a little bit. Why do you need this thing? And that’s and that’s the expert trying to discern what’s actually behind the need. And I think why that’s important is because very often, clients show up needing a thing, you know, or ordering a thing, but what they’re after always is an end result. And what we don’t know as the consultant or the contractor, we don’t know that what they’re bringing us is actually the best solution to the problem. And and and we can choose for that to be something we care about or not. Right? I can say great. You need this. I can create it.
11:43 Ed– So it sounds like a lot of this starts with mindset. Right? It’s how you view your relationship with a client or future relationship with a prospect. So one of the objections I hear to this or not objections, Sometimes you could just see it in their face, you know, when you suggest that there’s a different approach. A big part of the pushback is, well, yeah, but the client knows what they want. Who am I to then start questioning that? So maybe we can explore that a little bit because that’s kind of the starting point. And if you’re already coming into this with the wrong mindset, it’s gonna be very, very difficult to kind of move in a different direction.
16:45 Amy– there are all kinds of clients out there. There are clients that don’t want, you know, they don’t care about the service. They care about the price. There are other people who care about the price and the service. There are people who you know, for whom the service is gonna be really important. Everyone wants good quality output. Right? I mean, we can assume that every client, you know, wants the best deliverable that you can, you know, that you can possibly create. But what they’re looking for too are like, there’s some other really important factors that tie into expertise that aren’t related to your craft specifically.
19:27 Ed– What have you instead of seeing it as a binary thing, like not an expert or an expert, what have you seen it as different levels and degrees of expertise? Because I think automatically, we think of, you know, fill in the blank. Right? The top level person who’s written all these books, like Seth Godin, you know, or name your favorite star in your field. Well, you know, those are extreme examples. This is why I often hate these examples of business about Steve Jobs and, you know, because they’re so extreme that there’s a there’s a limit to their utility, you know, and I think if we saw it as like, hey, like you said, the fact that you just put yourself out there and that you’re doing something, you’re already at level 1. You know, levels 2 and 3 could be delivering a great experience by always doing what you said you were going to do. You know? Because I listen, I’ve worked with people. Now that you say that, you’re right. I’ve worked with people and I’ve hired writers in the past who didn’t do a very good job of positioning themselves as experts, but they always came through for me. And that was the person I would go to, you know, immediately. So to me, I didn’t think of it as expertise, but that you know, we don’t have thought of them as a pro. She’s a real pro. So maybe use that word, right, if you’re having trouble with it.
Amy– I like that. I like pro, and I like this reliability thing, it’s like it sounds so mundane, and so many people don’t do it. It’s shocking. Like, it’s just shocking to me. I mean, I’ve hired people who I’ve liked, I’ve seen them. I’ve seen their work.
21:11 Amy– I thought I knew who they were, and they ghost me. Or, you know, like, something happens and they don’t communicate. And it just shocks me to my shoes, really. Like, it’s so easy it’s so easy to be a good contractor. You know? Like, you need to communicate and you need to be reliable. But people, like, even there and this kind of crosses into the expertise because I think there’s this sense that, like, maybe I’m bugging you. Right? If I’m the contractor and, you know, you’re the client, like, I don’t wanna reach out or I don’t wanna you know, you know, I’m not really your employee. And what do you expect? And this is where processes will really save you because, like, great communication is really important.
25:29 Ed– I’m gonna name a couple of the things that came to mind as I was listening to you, and they’re we’ve kind of touched on this, but indirectly. One of them is what I harp on all the time, which is positioning. I find and I work with a lot of writers and solo marketers on their positioning, and I find that so many of them are undervaluing themselves and being very, very understated. You know? And I I know their background in many cases, and I’m not seeing it being communicated. And right away, I said, what about your degree from MIT? What’s going on there? Oh, but I don’t, you know, I don’t wanna talk about that. It’s like, are you out of your mind? And I’m giving you a real example, by the way. But it’s not unusual.People don’t, I think in our society, we’ve been brought up not to brag. But to me, there’s a fine line between bragging and just showcasing, you know, your experience, your expertise, your track record. So I think positioning is really, really important. You know? Talk about what you’ve done for others. Talk about whom you’ve worked with. Talk about your credentials, your experience, your years of experience. Oh, but I don’t wanna talk about it because believe me, that right there can make all the difference. You’ll never know how many people just kind of skipped over you and went to somebody else who really highlighted everything they had. So positioning is a really big one. And then the other one is to showcase what you know through written content. Right? It’s so, so important in oh, well, people don’t you know, there’s already so much out there. Who’s gonna read that? Or I don’t wanna feel like I am bragging, or I don’t want people to think that I’m a know it all. But here’s the thing that most freelancers don’t recognize is I don’t really care when I’m writing my stuff. Honestly, I know this is gonna sound bad. I don’t really care who’s reading or not reading it. But guess what? If I put it out there, someone will. And if they will, they’re gonna get a better understanding of how my head works, you know, my thinking, right, my perspective. And that’s what I want. It’s not that I want to reach everybody. It’s not that I want everybody to agree with me to read it. It’s for the few who do. I want them to get to know me a little better. And, man, even if you just have a few people reading your stuff, that’s really what matters.
28:06 Amy– it’s interesting that you say that because I think I mean, I kinda think positioning solves everything. I really do. I think it’s all I think it’s so much about positioning and how you, how you’re positioned, how you put yourself in relation to whatever situation. It’s so funny that you say that too because I have a client I’ve been working with for years. He’s got a PhD. I mean, he’s barely using it, like, barely talking about it now. But it’s been a real struggle for him to talk about that and to, you know, kind of brag on himself and his and his expertise.
32:03 Ed– I guarantee you, you could bring in a story from your personal life, your upbringing, an example of an application of that with a client of yours recently. You’ve just given it your own angle, and that’s what people want. They don’t want the same thing rehashed, but give it some sort of twist. And especially most of my audience as writers, this is what we’ve been trained to do. Right? It’s not like, oh, gosh. I wish I had a writer who could do this.
Amy– Exactly. Exactly. And I think and I think we get a little shy about that too because, you know, it’s one thing to do it for somebody else, but, like, you know, your own opinion and your own stuff. And it’s like, you know what? It’s it like, at the beginning, no one’s looking anyway, and you’ll develop a voice. And it’s just really I think it’s really, really important. I think it’s important for your own you know, you asked earlier about, like, the confidence and how do you get to feel, you know, sort of like an expert. And I think that’s part of the ownership. It’s not like you have to develop this expertise to talk about it, but you talk about what you do, and you kind of surface yourself as an expert.
36:57 Ed– So I’m telling you, the way it happens is little by little. You push yourself one step at a time, you know, and then breakthrough. And then that feeds your confidence. The confidence comes later. So I want to put that out there because I don’t want people to shut us out thinking, well, yeah, but, you know, they got all this confidence. Listen, one baby step at a time. So I don’t know your experience, Amy, with that. Your thoughts.
Amy– Yeah. I I think the truth is we all experience that all the time just at different levels. Right? I mean Yeah. Right. So every time like, I’m in a point in my business right now, I mean, things are sort of sorting out, but I’ve been in a pivot state for, like, 8 or 9 months, and I was lacking confidence. Not, like, just like, I don’t know what I’m doing. It didn’t feel really uncomfortable. I have enough experience that I know that the confidence will come as I figure out what I’m doing, but it’s not like, oh, I’m at a level now where I have innate confidence, and so I just, you know, plow forward with everything.
38:56 Amy– I think that this is the ongoing quest, right, to, like, to, you know, feel comfortable with who we are and what we’re doing in the world and, yeah, and and and sort of easing into that with whatever whatever we’re doing. And then it’s funny because there’s all these different places. Right? You can be confident in business, but you’re not confident as a parent or you’re confident as a parent and you’re, you know, you hate discovery calls. It’s like I mean, it’s this constant sort of finding yourself as a human, I think. I mean, unless you’re a narcissist, maybe. I don’t know. I I think that’s I think it’s fine kind of the human condition, and I think I think we’re really do well to to realize that, you know, that that that your coaches and your mentors and, you know, and everyone else all have their moments and, you know, everyone’s doing the best that they can, hopefully. But that’s the journey. Right? That’s the journey of being human is getting better and more confident and more sure of yourself and then going, oh, yeah. And I you know, falling backwards because you do. So that’s my take on it. I I think, you know, I think it’s a series of steps.
43:08 Ed– So, you know, what are some ideas maybe people can take to start moving in this direction with their questions?
Amy– So let me suggest a couple things. And I just wanna underscore something that you said, which is, like, to remember to to ask questions or remember that that’s that that’s that that’s a goal. And I think, you know, it so here’s the thing. When you first get an inquiry, there’s that. Right? There’s someone, you know, interested in what you offer, and then that will progress ideally to a discovery call where you’re having a conversation. And so I think initially, I think you wanna be pretty open ended and you wanna ask people like you might say something like, you know, could you tell me more about that? Or, you know, why is this you know, tell me what’s, you know, what’s brought you to this point or things that are pretty general. You know, what have you so it’s like let’s say they’re coming to you for something they’re coming to you for web copy. You’re a copywriter.
44:25 Amy– You know, tell me about your current web copy. You know, what, why, why do you feel it isn’t working, or what do you need it to do for you that it isn’t? And, you know, how long have you had it? And, you know, did it work for you at one point and it stopped working? Or, you know, what you’re what you wanna do is you kinda wanna probe, and you might not feel comfortable as you pointed out. Like, if you’re not feeling really comfortable at first, I think those more general questions can kinda get you in the door. Like, so tell me about this. So tell me, like, you know, great. You need a new website. That’s cool. What, like, like, what’s what’s going on with your website? What, you know, why does it need to change? Just ask some really basic questions, but what I would suggest from there is don’t be afraid to drill down a little bit more.
49:35 Ed– when you ask good open-ended questions, you’re asking some very simple things and then let them do the presenting, if we wanna call it that. That takes the load off, which is huge.
Amy– It does. And it really, really has the effect of making people feel seen. You know, like, we were just saying, like, in a personal situation or professional. When you’re curious and you’re really interested, somebody can sense that. Right? And, ideally, you should be curious and interested because it’s, you know, it’s what you do. And this is why I like to talk about it in the problem solving sense because, you know, clients have problems. You have solutions. You know, is their problem a problem you wanna solve? Is it a problem you’re good at solving? That’s what you can ascertain in these conversations.
51:47 Ed– It doesn’t mean that by the way, that doesn’t mean that the client could have all this figured out. But even if you ask the questions and they have great answers for you, awesome. It’s still a win win still because you’re showing them that you know your stuff and you’re asking good questions. I know if I were on the other side, I would think, hey, Amy, that’s she knows her stuff. This is good. I’m glad she’s asking this. We got all this figured out. But because she’s asking means that she’s the person for the gig because she knows. She covered all the bases. So I think, you know, and I wanna kinda tie it back to where we started, Amy. I don’t want people to think that well, that means I I can’t have any order taking clients. You know? Look. I think realistically, you’re gonna have a mix. Many people are gonna have a mix. You’re gonna have, let’s say, content marketing agencies who have everything spelled out, figured out, and they’re gonna tell you, here’s everything we need.
54:03 Amy– I think the important thing is discernment and that you know what you’re offering and that what you’re offering or how you’re positioning yourself is where you wanna be positioned. And if not, that you can, you know, gradually work yourself toward another positioning. And it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t have to be immediate. It doesn’t have to be overnight. But I think it’s important to know what’s available and how the marketplace works so you can choose how you wanna position yourself and then, you know, and then work toward that.
By the way… whenever you’re ready, here are 4 ways I can help you grow your freelance business:
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